Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Saturday 6th Jan

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
15:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction

2. Greetings

3. Community highlights

   • All open CCS proposals funded on new years day https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ , Ruckniums infra costs have almost been funded too https://rucknium.me/donate/ / Monero ATM almost there!
   • https://bounties.monero.social/ performing well. BCH<->XMR atomic swap bounty mentioned on Reddit , bitmessage rewrite bounty marked as also started by tobtoht.
   • +28XMR General Fund donation
   • Bitmain X5 writeup - gingeropolous
   • Revuo update - rottenwheel
     News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - The Monero Standard - Monero Moon

4. CCS updates

   • Lovera
   • escapethe3RA
   • selsta
   • tobtoht
   • jeffro256

   a. Core Monero Concepts
   b. hinto-janai - full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)
   c. tobtoht full-time feather + core development (3 months)

5. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2024
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   g. Research workgroup
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup

6. Open ideas time

   • monero-meta updates
   • Calls for moderation on Matrix/IRC with a related meta-issue: Matrix/IRC Lack of proper moderation #899

7. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

Logs

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > meeting in 45 minutes ~ is vostoemisio around #952

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > how many of us are left are the #quietning?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > Meeting time #952

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > greetings

< msvb-lab > Hello.

< x​mrscott:monero.social > Yo

< nioCat > meow

< t​obtoht:monero.social > hi

< midipoet > hello

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Hi

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > is #monero-beef:monero.social bridged to IRC?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > would anyone like to comment on the ongoing issue of "Calls for moderation on Matrix/IRC" and also a related meta-issue: #899

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I don't think it's bridged with the new DataHoarder bridge. I think there is an IRC room with that name.

< DataHoarder > it's not bridged

< DataHoarder > does it need to?

< nioCat > just checked, there was 1 person in the irc room, if that is even the real irc room

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i think so yes, it could be useful

< DataHoarder > exactly, just joined, empty, minus a person that got OP due to being the only one

< c​trej:matrix.org > hello

< ofrnxmr > am i evading bans rn

< DataHoarder > someone will need to claim that IRC room properly anyhow, otherwise it'll sit unmoderated on IRC side (or with a random person)

< midipoet > ofrnxmr: yes, i would imagine so, if you were banned on matrix side

< midipoet > plowsof should implement a ban on IRC side as they are op'd in IRC

< ofrnxmr > aw. Good thing i dont care what sgp or scott have tosay, right?

< DataHoarder > either you ask the people in that #monero-beef room nicely to give it to the project, or ask libera.chat ops to assign it to a project

< midipoet > plowsof should, as they are a moderator here. plowsof?

< DataHoarder > I think bridging it before this is done (given topics there) might not be a good idea

< ofrnxmr > Plowsof, shall we continue the meeting? Hinto is likely waiting

< s​iren:kernal.eu > Realistically, our comments don't matter and nothing will change. The best thing that can possibly happen is the dissolution of monero.social. And otherwise, if the monero.social admin really cares, should revoke perms of people who are too unstable/untrustworthy to moderate.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thanks DataHoarder, Rucknium created the matrix room,, its possible it can be shufffled around / renamed if needed. will keep you updated, thanks for maintaining m-relay

< r​ucknium:monero.social > plowsof: Shouldn't we go through the main agenda first? I can say something on moderation when the agenda item arrives.

< s​iren:kernal.eu > And also who is the admin of monero.social?

< ofrnxmr > the problem with the latter part @siren, is sgp gave himself admin from his own homeserver

< ofrnxmr > rucknium - +1

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > ofrnxmr is ban evading while geonic is muted here

< s​iren:kernal.eu > so sgp owns the server and the hetzner account?

< ofrnxmr > sgp owns neither

< x​mrscott:monero.social > (Taking care of bridging behind the scenes w/ DH FWIW)

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I didn't create #monero-beef:monero.social . IIRC I suggested that it be created. xmrscott is the creator.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > ohhh i see

< DataHoarder > I'll await clearing ownership of that room on IRC side (and/or as xmrscott said on DM, use a different one)

< DataHoarder > Preferably same one

< s​iren:kernal.eu > why is xmrscott an admin the resolutions chat? who is he?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > FOSS funding scene updates: All open CCS proposals funded on new years day https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ , Ruckniums infra costs have almost been funded too https://rucknium.me/donate/ / Monero ATM almost there!

< midipoet > ?

< midipoet > Why have we moved on

< midipoet > When we started this topic?

< s​iren:kernal.eu > why is xmrscott an admin in the resolutions chat? who is he?

< midipoet > xmrscott has been around monero for a LONG time

< ofrnxmr > They made the rooms and just sit in the thrones and wont move

< midipoet > has always acted as admin/mod for any number of channels and platforms

< ofrnxmr > ^ by default, not because anyone wanted them to

< ofrnxmr > Anyway, plowsof, this is your meeting. Stick to your agenda

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > will loop back to moderation issues, as Rucknium is undoubtedly wanting to share any BCH<->XMR atomic swap updates, and has asked to follow the agenda which has this listed later

< s​iren:kernal.eu > I don't care, if he has been around for long. What are his contributions let's say? other than crying for CoCk?

< midipoet > siren: too many to mention (or me to remember)

< r​ucknium:monero.social > PHCitizen created a proof-of-concept BCH<>XMR atomic swap. We are pending technical review for bounty payout. Another Monero Bounties success :D https://bounties.monero.social/posts/37/16-001m-bch-xmr-atomic-swaps

< r​ucknium:monero.social > And there is a BCH Flipstarter (like a decentralized CCS) for a production-ready implementation: https://atomic-flip.pat.mn

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the bounty was technically 'expired' .. thankfully it was not closed!

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Yes, it took two years

< ofrnxmr > is this the one where they need to test on mainnet, kaya gave it a once over?

< ofrnxmr > the atomic swap bounty

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > flipstarter is a bch fundraising platform (with a twist) , was used to implement bch cashfusion into stackwallet. thank you for championing the project / raising awareness Rucknium

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > They did a mainnet tx but it needs to be reviewed if really atomic.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > They executed a mainnet swap. kayaba did look at the idea, but he doesn't want to review like he did for ETH<>XMR atomic swaps. I think we need a BCH protocol developer to look at the details because it uses BCH scripts

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > AFAIK these are different guys than the gut who made the implementation on the bounty right?

< r​ucknium:monero.social > So I will reach out to BCH devs.

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > > <@Rucknium:monero.social> And there is a BCH Flipstarter (like a decentralized CCS) for a production-ready implementation: https://atomic-flip.pat.mn

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > In reply to @Rucknium:monero.social

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > And there is a BCH Flipstarter (like a decentralized CCS) for a production-ready implementation: https://atomic-flip.pat.mn

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > AFAIK these are different guys than the guy who made the implementation on the bounty right?

< s​gp:monero.social >_ hello

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > removed geonics mute on irc side, as im unable to play whackamole atm

< r​ucknium:monero.social > unkn8wn69: A little complicated. bitcoincashautist wrote the core BCH contract about 6 months ago. Developed a few improved versions. Then PHCitizen was working on it. He slowed down. Then mainnet-pat worked on it when XMR delisting became a topic AFAIK. Then they both completed it at around the same time.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > More info on the timeline in #monero-community-dev:monero.social

< midipoet > plowsof: to be honest, you taking supermod privileges and undermining other mods is fairly underhanded

< 0​xfffc:matrix.org > Hi everyone

< midipoet > One would have thought you could discuss with them first (unless you did)

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > Okay and how to make it fair? Giving out all to phcitizen wouldn't be fair no? Maybe ask phcitizen to make an agreement with the other devs.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > we can loop back to the mod issue, i took the decision myself now to unmute geonic as i see there are several people in here already banned/muted in other channels

< r​ucknium:monero.social > bitcoincashautist has already said to give it to PHCitizen. I will have to confirm with mainnet-pat that he is ok with that.

< ofrnxmr > hello 0xfffc

< m​onerobull:matrix.org > in my humble opinion, i should be emperor of all monero platforms

< m​onerobull:matrix.org > in my humble opinion, i should be god-emperor of all monero platforms

< ofrnxmr > super kami

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Weeb Supremacy

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thanks Rucknium

< 0​xfffc:matrix.org > I'm 0xfffffffc.

< 0​xfffc:matrix.org > i introduced myself a few months ago when i first got here. I was C++ dev in big tech. Working on a product with more than a billion active customers (chances are you are using it now), been working on Monero here and there and ramping up my work lately and have plan to work on Monero full time.

< DataHoarder > regarding #monero-beef > ChanServ- The #monero namespace is registered to the monero project, so only authorized contacts may register new channels.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > have also completed 1 bounty @ bounties.monero.social, with another in progress, thank you!

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Atomic swaps with a low-fee coin like BCH (or LTC) are important since high-fee BTC make atomic swaps difficult. Many recent unsatisfied users of BTC<>XMR atomic swaps.

< DataHoarder > we got OP in that channel to register it, but we will probably need either luigi1111 or binaryFate to register it after joining that channel

< ofrnxmr > Datahorder, can we save that for after the meetinf

< ofrnxmr > or like, dm's?

< 0​xfffc:matrix.org > Lately I have been following Monero closely lately. I think we have to have fair procedures for these banning. We cannot ban people so easily.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > will come after the open CCS ideas

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > a. Core Monero Concepts

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > is vostoemisio here

< DataHoarder > yep. just informing progress there, either can poke in that room once able, or I'll come back after a day or so once I get time

< ofrnxmr > ty DH

< nioCat > <m​onerobull:matrix.org> in my humble opinion, i should be god-emperor of all monero platforms <<>> +1

< ofrnxmr > +1 to MB

< binaryFate > let me know what you need about this channel, can do

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > Core Monero Concepts proposal, would move to funding requiring just 1 XMR (as it will absorb the remaining XMR from savandras prev. proposal) more info in my comment here more info on that in my comment here https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/412#note_22619

< nioCat > would or will move to funding?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > could* if people want it to

< nioCat > yes please

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > Makes sense

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > just need vosoemisio to say 'check in' with us again.. its been a while

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > vostoemisio:

< ofrnxmr > xenu

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the other meetings , its a merge sentiment with a few adjustments where necessary to scripts / video ideas - however, as they plan to do 2 further videos, if the community isn't happy then there will be no follow up

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > moving on?

< ofrnxmr > yeah. Come back if they arrive i guess?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > b. hinto-janai - full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)

< nioCat > they have always taken into account community input

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > this is true nioc, i prefer vosto/xenu over the previous anim. video team.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > hinto: anything new for your proposal?

< ofrnxmr > cuprate room has been pretty active

< ofrnxmr > Detherminal, kaya, boog, hinto

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > #cuprate:monero.social

< r​ucknium:monero.social > On hinto-janai: Sounds good to me. I wondered if hinto's time was more valuable working on Seraphis, but rbrunner said that now is not a good entry time for new Seraphis devs. So hinto can be productive on cuprate and especially documenting the C++ codebase. (I am not a real programmer).

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > Why not in monero space?

< nioCat > no irc room ofc

< ofrnxmr > Niocat - create one (pls?)

< ofrnxmr > can bridge later, np

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i see thats done, thanks niocat

< nioCat > I joined just to look and then left

< nioCat > someone would need to help the handicapped lol

< nioCat > after meeting is fine :)

< s​iren:kernal.eu > midipoet: Nothing of use eh https://github.com/sanecito

< ofrnxmr > im +1 for cuprate funding, but if hinto ever feels overpaid i hope he donates to his compadres

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thanks for clarifying the situation with hintos proposal Rucknium

< v​ostoemisio:matrix.org > Hey

< midipoet > siren: i am not sure what the definition "of use" means to you, to be honest.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > Siren: speaking through each other on different topics sucks, and it will be brought up in a few mins

< v​ostoemisio:matrix.org > So let me write a short summary of our status atm (mine and Xenus), you can go along with the meeting whilst I get my laptop

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thank you, in the meantime, hintos proposal has 2 thumbs up and no comments

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > I had seen weakened characters but plowsof's is the softest lil' biscuit who doesn't ban or confront anyone, ever.

< ofrnxmr > Plowsof bans people all the time

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > He just says thank you, says yes and keeps grinding for piconeros. Poor Bri'ish people and their red buses...

< s​iren:kernal.eu > midipoet: why so? it clearly means "of use for the monero community". I see no code or useful contributions online. I don't care about social media activity and crappy mod skills.

< ofrnxmr > You just dont notice, because nobody complains, not even the person banned

< ofrnxmr > plowsof was the one who banned lebanon

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > BAN OFRNXMR OR FACE THE FLAMES FROM THE INNER EARTH PLANET!!!

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > plowsof do better !!!

< ofrnxmr > lolol

< ofrnxmr > rotten, are you being serious right now?

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > I am super duper mega serious all the time!

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Even sleeping I am serious!

< ofrnxmr > sounds like sarcasm

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Ofrn drop the banhammer in 3 or I'm fast dialing luigi and getting you expelled.

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Chop chop.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > while we wait for vosto to clarify things , instead of talking through each other, lets jump to another proposal, which the future of the CCS / monero project depends on (in the immediate short term and future)

< 0​xfffc:matrix.org > I really like plowsof approach to community management. Maximizing participation, minimizing drama. That is a correct approach imho

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > c. tobtoht full-time feather + core development (3 months)

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > I think hintos work is important for the ecosystem as we need new implementation (rewrites) of our old and clumsy software. Its a good idea to fund it from my opinion

< ofrnxmr > I agree on hinto(cuprate)

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Merge tob and make Feather a statue.

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Easy.

< midipoet > siren: fair enough. I am not going to justify xmrscott's "worth" to the community. you either take my word and others that have known them for quite a while, or you don't, and sit on your own judgement. it's totally up to you. If the goal here is to consistently conduct reputational attacks, then so be it. It's not a great look though, to be honest.

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Only piece of software that makes XMR's spaghetti code look good.

< ofrnxmr > (they really need to fix the onion routing for ccs. Cloudflare is annoying)

< r​ucknium:monero.social > +1 merge tobtoht

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i must stress that, because we have been given a timeframe ' ultimatum from luigi to have multisig ready for the ccs 3.0 wallet, tobtoht is forced to work on that task for the next 3 months

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Just merge that shit, dammit.

< nioCat > +1

< ofrnxmr > +1 hinto

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > +1 on tob feather is going great with constant improvements.

< ofrnxmr > +1 tobtoht

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > namely multisig UX , with extra support from the community coming from https://bounties.monero.social/posts/83/15-500m-bitmessage-rival-or-re-write

< nioCat > (for tobtoht)

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thank you all for feedback once again

< s​iren:kernal.eu > midipoet: no, I asked you a legitimate question because I wanted to know why this person has so much power in a certain chat. I am here to promote my own community projects, namely the payment processor and the ATM.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > looping back to the hot topic ^ - Calls for moderation on Matrix/IRC with a related meta-issue: #899

< DataHoarder > once meeting(s) are done I'll have to cycle the bridge to add the new #monero-beef room, thanks for the quick work there :)

< ofrnxmr > wait, let siren so ahead first i think

< midipoet > siren: then why not accept the answer i give you? Why bother asking if you aren't interested in the reply?

< nioCat > yes, siren please

< nioCat > atm +

< ofrnxmr > Datahoarder can you do cuprate:monero.social > cuprate:libera.chat pls and thx

< s​iren:kernal.eu > midipoet: you said you don't remember and there's nothing online. Wanted to confirm this is the correct person :)

< s​iren:kernal.eu > Out of curiosity

< DataHoarder > will do add #cuprate, please plowsof register the room via ChanServ once able

< ofrnxmr > thanks again

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Can't be arsed to read all that, especially if it's written by Dan 🤐 r/dark (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate ), contains ofrnxmr verbal diarrhea and geonic's chronic mental retardation...

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > For point 7, bridge all Matrix rooms to IRC, all in. Please do it by yesterday.

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Next point.

< ofrnxmr > rotten are you dumb or just stupid

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Yes.

< ofrnxmr > what do you think is happening over the past few days

< v​ostoemisio:matrix.org > Xenu made a script for the node video but initial feedback wasn't 100% great from the community. Therefore, we decided to revise and present a new revised script based on the received feedback. Some things came up IRL for Xenu that made this take some time.

< v​ostoemisio:matrix.org > Just yesterday Xenu sent me a revised script and storyboard that I haven't had time to look over yet.

< v​ostoemisio:matrix.org > TLDR: We have been very slow and we apologize for that. However, we will present a new script in a few days and then ramp things up on both the production front and the second script. We got capacity ready and stand by to start production as soon as script have been approved.

< v​ostoemisio:matrix.org > Are there any questions?

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > I don't know, you tell us, Mr. I am online 24/7 writing insults everywhere.

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > I'm sure people love your attitude.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > perfect vostoemisio

< s​gp:monero.social >_ I can comment on the approach to moderation if people like. In general, I think people have been tired with the aggressive commentary that has occurred in the last few months, and I'm working with the other mods and the server admin to help keep the conversation in relevant rooms focused on Monero discussions, instead of name-calling, etc.

< ofrnxmr > The linked table, the bridges rooms, the meta issue about matrix tasks,, the bans, everything is related, including dan and mattermost

< ofrnxmr > sgp - step dowm. How about that

< ofrnxmr > how about you ask the community if they like your moderation style

< 0​xfffc:matrix.org > Who defines “aggressive”? That is extremely slippery slope. Once we are on that road. There is no end.

< msvb-lab > Claims that xmrscott is useless is both wrong and offensive, I'm not sure why this is in the agenda.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > (1) Contributors to the Monero codebase are supposed to follow a code of conduct: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/docs/CONTRIBUTING.md#project-administration . I don't know if people who don't contribute to the codebase are supposed to follow it. (2) IMHO, SGP should remove himself from all Monero community responsibilities. That includes MAGIC Grants. His cha

< r​ucknium:monero.social > in analysis company is too much of a conflict of interest. (3) People will do what they want in this channel I guess, but if the noise to signal ratio stays too high I personally will just stop reading and participating here. Vote with feet.

< s​gp:monero.social >_ It's not a death cult, we get to independently decide what is a rule violation on a case by case basis

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Maybe there should be a formal monero discussion group, & a shitposting, meme, & rough housing chat group.

< x​mrscott:monero.social > (1): Yes. Same concept applies to the Tor project or any other privacy project

< ofrnxmr > +1 ruck..

< ofrnxmr > jordan - there are #xmrmemes #offtopic etc

< s​iren:kernal.eu > +1

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Lack of channels we don

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > msvb-lab just yesterday a series of actions took place (banning/muting) in response to calls for better moderation. that meta issue has some view points of those against decisions/actions being taken (both sides are represented)

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Lack of channels we don't have, lol. Don't propose the creation of more... use what we got.

< msvb-lab > Okay plowsof, it's probably just that I didn't read through all the lines relating to moderation. xmrscott has never been of little use in any project he was part of, as far as I know.

< msvb-lab > If he made mistakes while moderating, then I didn't see that.

< ofrnxmr > he muted dan for trying to get work done

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > I was just throwing a thought out there, I know ofrnxmr is a passionate debater but I don't think he should be completely banned honestly because the mantra of monero is to promote freedom, & combat censorship.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > However, extreme unruliness is counter productive.

< ofrnxmr > telling me to ask JW for screenshots or some nonsense.

< ofrnxmr > regarding my rage ban by erc in -site and -translations

< s​gp:monero.social >_ This is the issue. The unruliness has outweighed any usefulness. If the ratio improves, then I will be very happy

< x​mrscott:monero.social > QubesOS and Tor CoC to those who might think Monero is alone in having an enforceable CoC:

< x​mrscott:monero.social > https://www.qubes-os.org/code-of-conduct/

< x​mrscott:monero.social > https://community.torproject.org/training/code-of-conduct/

< ofrnxmr > sgp - thats your opinion

< ofrnxmr > Mine is, your COI and emotions outweigh your ability to moderate

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Every community has infighting, lol, we're not any special in that aspect unfortunately 😅 .

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Here is the relevant text from Monero's docs/CONTRIBUTING.md that I linked above: "Administrators SHOULD block or ban "bad actors" who cause stress and pain to others in the project. This should be done after public discussion, with a chance for all parties to speak. A bad actor is someone who repeatedly ignores the rules and culture of the project, who is needlessly argumentative

< r​ucknium:monero.social > or hostile, or who is offensive, and who is unable to self-correct their behavior when asked to do so by others."

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Things could improve the day some can sit down and have a grown up men conversation, via voice preferably, allowing nuances, voices...

< ofrnxmr > Ive spoken to sgp plenty of times live

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > There's an unnamed character that acts like an utter ass all the time and when called out, retaliates even worse against such person. Or claims "he does what he wants/whatever he wants".

< r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu > Oooohhh but he runs the whole support room by himself! Better not ban him!!! So smart!

< ofrnxmr > Arent you the nazi who threatens ppl

< ofrnxmr > im confused who youre talking abt, if not yourself

< nioCat > plowsof: Cat wants to know, wen lunch?

< ofrnxmr > now

< ofrnxmr > Did we miss any ccs'?

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > No just 3.

< nioCat > siren was on the agenda

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > thank you all for attending the short notice meeting

< ofrnxmr > Ty. Plowsof please reping binaryfate (or whoever) about the onion routing for ccs website

< nioCat > I will shill for the C-atm https://atm.monero.is/index.html

< nioCat > seems to be useful in the delisting times :)

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > will do, hopefully i can update the issue soon monero-project/monero-site#2216

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > monero potential delist'ening https://monero.observer/binance-marks-monero-potential-delisting/

< s​iren:kernal.eu > aye!

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > to stay more informed/discuss related topics please join #monero-policy, please ping midipoet on entering

< s​iren:kernal.eu > the street rate is becoming real

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > Someone should distribute them in germany - where crypto ATM's are banned

< t​esta:cthd.icu > Has anyone thought about using monero in a way to create a blockchain decentralized government voting system?

< t​esta:cthd.icu > How can governments be trusted with polling results if they are the ones counting the votes?

< t​esta:cthd.icu > Please reply in a thread so we keep this topic organized.

< DataHoarder > also plowsof - register #cuprate given you are OP there, then I can cycle bridge

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Counter-intuitive in my honest opinion, Monero undermines the credibility, existence, & need for governments, essentially that is feeding rat poison to a rat.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Well intended but we need more Libre leaders, or none.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Counter-intuitive in my honest opinion, Monero undermines the credibility, existence, & need for governments, essentially that is feeding rat poison to a rat.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > Your statement is well intended but we need more Libre leaders, or none.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > I don't have faith in governments to implement a competent voting mechanism at national scale, at least not in North America.

< DataHoarder > Cycling bridge

< msvb-lab > I guess the meeting concluded, so dankon very much for the moderation plowsof.

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > I read and it looks like everyone who is not totally random to the community can engage in the meetings. Is this correct? I'd like to contribute more regularly by helping on votings and discussing new projects / ideas

< s​iren:kernal.eu > even randoms can

< u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org > Alright great)

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > no problem! i forgot to share Dan 🤐 r/dark (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate ) has made several focalboards for events / community (and is hosting/maintaining this out of pocket currently)

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > I'm sure a blockchain system could be utilized for voting but I don't think Monero is necessarily designed for that.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > I think it would have to be another system being utilized for a voting system.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > ccs work in progress https://mattermost.monerokon.org/plugins/focalboard/team/89jtbrysdj86xyxre15e9zba7o/shared/bi4hp8ofnqtryzxk3ke9498njjy/v5kmijizkf3ng7xcw1h3p3ibghr?r=k8o58jgtka9fopfw9nny7dsztcr

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > monero-meta https://mattermost.monerokon.org/plugins/focalboard/team/89jtbrysdj86xyxre15e9zba7o/shared/bh6czw5snotfnzpj5tnqrtm69fr/vo55msy56hjrebba4x18jti5psy?r=ky4ho8sb9huxsft5c5to3txxwjy

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > CCS idea list https://mattermost.monerokon.org/plugins/focalboard/team/89jtbrysdj86xyxre15e9zba7o/shared/b3pygaywjxbyiprkwcpf3hruczy/vcizqoahyrpn598e4mr311ec95o?r=khrftnbm4s1qpnwiwmywg6jdrqe

< t​esta:cthd.icu > Crossing that first bridge of implementing such a system would be the hardest part.

< t​esta:cthd.icu > But if it’s all decentralized and open source, then people would have an easier time trusting it.

< t​esta:cthd.icu > I guess it just takes time for people to become more technologically literate, before such events could possibly occur.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > a meta issue regarding the matrix main/alternate homeserver addresses is also in progress by ofrnxmr

< DataHoarder > new rooms are bridged

< s​iren:kernal.eu > Looking great, thanks Dan 🤐 r/dark (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate )

< nioCat > thx DataHoarder

< t​esta:cthd.icu > Very likely that monero might not be the solution for my idea, but this community attracts people with similar ideas, so thought I might give it a shot.

< j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org > I imagine it may be feasible in nicer countries like Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Korea, or Japan, 50% 50% on the U.K. but just not realistic at national scale in most of The Americas, it would have to be at city, or state levels for The U.S., or in the rogue Latin American countries bucking the system like El Salvador, & Argentine.

< s​gp:monero.social >_ boards for these is a good idea

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > please enjoy the rest of your day. Cat, i purchased some "cat milk" from the shop today to be reviewed.

Automated by this

[erciccione]

Very sad to see the quality of community meetings on #monero-community. This log is depressing. A lot of noise, very few content if any.

I'm curious to know why ofrnxmr (nahuhh), despite being banned, was able to participate to this meeting. He seems to be surprised himself, since in the log above we can see him asking if he is evading a ban, people answering positively to his question and then nothing happening when he decides to ignore the ban. To this day, he is still polluting community channels despite the ban. @plowsof you are a moderator and were even chairing the meeting, did you ignore the ban and let a ban evasion happen or there is something else not logged here that people should know?

[nahuhh]

"he is still polluting community channels."
speaking for yourself?
The community does not agree.

[plowsof]

@erciccione No less than 30~minutes prior to this meeting, several matrix users where muted in other rooms (who then joined the meeting in the -community channel). ofrnxmr matrix account is currently banned in all the rooms that contain banhammer. and we had 1 user muted on the IRC side in -community. faced with this situation, i decided to undermine the rulings of the moderation team (which i have apologised for) and simply unmute the IRC user, for some kind of fairness, while i attempted to guide the meeting and keep to the agenda, which imo seemed to be successful.

currently, it takes several seconds to evade bans on IRC which is why i stated in the meeting that i was 'unable to play whackamole', leave the meeting i was chairing, round up all the matrix users on a 'time out' and temp ban them with banhammer, then, on the IRC side, banning ofrnxmr/any renamed accounts that join (or enable some mod tricks such as 'registered users only' or prevent new users joining). i suspect the meeting would not have continued.

all meetings i have chaired can be found here author:plowsof.

meta-issues are now gaining attention / actively being worked on, i think there will also need to be something 'done' for the localisation workgroup which you can hopefully advise/help with (do we need a new dedicated server to host weblate / files to be transferred to?)

edit* ErC has been coordinating with backend admins to get the getmonero weblate server fixed/updated to no avail and has since provided a temporary server.

[erciccione]

@plowsof I'm confused by your answer, maybe i missed or misunderstood something. Please let me know if that's the case.

I know i was still in the room when ofrnxmr's account was banned on both Libera and Matrix. Now you are saying that you

decided to undermine the rulings of the moderation team (which i have apologised for) and simply unmute the IRC user

and after

i stated in the meeting that i was 'unable to play whackamole'

This is strange. Was the muted user creating multiple accounts to evade the ban? I haven't seen any report of such situation, only that suddenly the user got unbanned/unmuted from IRC and the only reason provided is that you didn't want to play wackamole.

Seems a bit of a weak reason to allow a ban evasion. Especially because it applies to every ban ever given. Why was this situation different, so that unbanning was considered and then done for this particular user? Also, why was the user not banned after the meeting then, if he was allowed to participate only because you didn't want to waste time? (after unmuting him? weird situation to put yourself into) Or the following days? at least 1 hour ago he was still evading the ban and writing in the same room as you.

It's hard to believe this is a simple mistake, looks much more like a deliberate choice. It would be fine if there were clear and stated reasons, but for now seems like the user was arbitrarily unmuted and things remained that way for no clear reason, despite an apology from you for the unmuting.

edit* ErC has been coordinating with backend admins to get the getmonero weblate server fixed/updated to no avail and has since provided a temporary server.

This is not correct. Weblate has been broken for some time. I've been pinging pigeons and core for months asking to take care of the situation, but it's still not fixed and it's running on its own temporary server. Since i closed my ccs and decided to not seek funding for working on Monero i halted all my contributions to the project, including the things i did as volunteer in the localization and website workgroups.

[plowsof]

Im not personally going to engage in herding cats. If this is what is required then i am no moderator and must step down. As an experiment, I have already made a fool of myself trying to remove one user from -offtopic (unsuccessfully for about 30 minutes).

The user who i simply unbanned on the irc side (to my knowledge) has never tried to avoid any kind of ban.

The mod team are working on a solution to mirror actions efficiently on matrix/irc.

Thank you for clarifying the weblate situation, this should definitely be a priority to get fixed finally, it will be raised in meetings moving forward.

[nahuhh]

I know i was still in the room when ofrnxmr's account was banned on both Libera and Matrix.

this is false.
i haven't been banned from any room on irc side, nor should i have been banned from -site or -translations